Sunday, September 21, 2008

Do Not Be Afraid of Him - Part 1

Introduction

Given that many others have done this before, the following aims to be a (relatively) short but pungent reply to the Muslim claim that Muhammad's coming was prophesied in Deuteronomy 18.

This article has been moved to the Answering Islam website. To read the rest of it, go here. The comments section will remain open for anyone who wants to comment.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hi Tony,

01) I’m back and will be able to entertain you for several days only.

02) Why do you want to transfer further correspondence on Deut 18:18 concerning the prophecy on Prophet Muhammed to another main blog page.

I kinda like the present main blog page with your captivating “ Christian “ appeal “ Please help my Muslim Friend “.

C’mon be a “ generous hearted “ Christian and stay on this blog !!

Pssst, pssst..others might think you trying to do a “ Bush/Blair“ act i.e. “ covering up your lies by way of deceit and deception !!

03) You wrote…” for the first of many responses to your claims that Muhammad was a prophet. “.

What you mean “ for the first of many responses “ ???

After 11 days of waiting , only now, you manage to prepare “first of many responses “ ??

What happen to your earlier “ Christian “ boast… “ I MAINTAIN THAT THERE IS NOT THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF EVIDENCE FOR SUCH A CLAIM “.

Surely for making such a BIG CLAIM, I expected you to produce effortlessly your candidate with all the supporting facts….you know like how I presented my candidate with supporting facts !

Please, please do not do favours for me, by confirming the boast was made by baby kong !


04) You wrote in the main blog… “ He is having a terrible time proving his case “

I am very sure you were talking to your own self !!


05) C’mon Tony, be merciful to your being. This is a man’s job... not baby kong’s.

Make a FULL RESPONSE WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY BY PRODUCING YOUR CANDIDATE WITH SUPPORTING FACTS FOR US TO COMPARE WHICH CANDIDATE IS MOST SUITABLE !!

If you are unable to comprehend or meet this challenge then, stick to ‘superboy ‘ or ‘ simpsons ‘
.
06) You wrote on July 29, 2008 " The Sword Has Spoken, the Matter Is Settled "

I requested you on Sept 19, to quote IN FULL CONTEXT FROM THE NOBLE QUR’AN WHERE IT SHOWS THE GORY DETAILS OF “ SPILLING BLOOD OF INFIDELS “.

To date you have not been able to quote from the Noble Qur’an to support your claim.

I challenge you again to produce SUCH A QUOTATION .

I give you liberty to enlist your team as well as the whole of Christendom to assist you to produce such a quotation from the Noble Qur’an.

If you cannot ( FOR A CERTAINTY YOU CANNOT ! ), I DECLARE ANTHONY ROGERS IS A TRUE CHRISTIAN LIAR WHO, LIKE SAINT PAUL, PROMOTE LIES, DECEIT AND FALSEHOOD to carry out CHRISTIAN EVANGELISM as in

Romans Ch 3 :7 But if the truth of God THROUGH MY LIE abounded unto his glory....


Philippians Ch 1 : 18 But what does it matter? The IMPORTANT THING is that in EVERY WAY, WHETHER FROM FALSE MOTIVES or true, CHRIST IS PREACHED...(NIV)

2 Cor Ch 12:16..."But be it so, I did not burden you nevertheless, BEING CRAFTY, I CAUGHT YOU WITH GUILE."

Sorry, my friend,, I am compelled to expose you for your lies, deceit and deception !

Go, make peace with your Maker, before its too late

Semper Paratus said...

Sorry you don't like the fact that I put my first refutation up on a new page, but you might as well get used to it: that is what I plan on doing with each installment. That way the proof that Muhammad was a false prophet won't get buried beneath all your rambling and the readers won't have to feel like they are dumpster diving in order to find anything edible.

Believe me, I think I know what you must be going through and why you wouldn't want each devastating blow to your plagiarized case for Muhammad to be clearly placarded for all to see, but that is what you can expect and are going to have to deal with.

Your penchant for asking me to produce an alternative candidate to Muhammad is one that I already tried to disabuse you of in private correspondence, but if you wish to face public embarrassment over it, that is fine. Remember I pointed out to you the fundamental irrationality of what your challenge assumes: i.e. "Muhammad is spoken of in Deuteronomy 18 unless you can show who it is speaking about". But that is as much a non-sequitur as anything I can think of.

The burden to prove that Muhammad was a true prophet is on you. I don't have to show who the passage is talking about in order to show that it is not and cannot be talking about the guy Muslims are head over heals about and whom they slavishly follow instead of the true God.

For all that, I do have every intention in the world and am all too eager to point out in Part two who the passage is talking about, but as it stands we already know that it is not talking about Muhammad. That means the gig is already up for you, but not for me.

As for your repetitious butchering of Saint Paul's words, what can I say? You are a man who has no credibility, as witness the plagiarism episode, so it isn't surprising how badly you would twist his words.

Each and every passage you cite has a context, believe it or not. Just because the Qur'an is written so poorly that it can't be understood in its own context without the aid of traditions and commentaries doesn't mean the same goes for the Bible.

For example, the passage you cite from Philippians ("Whether from false motives or true...") is Paul saying that he is not bothered by the fact that evil men are trying to stir up opposition for him. Such men were preaching the Gospel, but only because they knew it would bring more attention to and heat against Paul. But Paul was not deterred by that, for to him the thing of greatest importance was that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was being proclaimed to lost sinners, such as you are.

As someone who professes to believe in God Almighty, one would have thought you would understand such a thing: since God is all-powerful, the evil intentions and motives of hypocrites is of no concern to Him, for God can work even that together for good. The only people hypocrites harm is themselves. Does the reasoning sound familiar? I am sure it does.

Oh, yes. I almost forgot. You wanted me to do your homework for you and school you on Jihad. You asked me for a verse. I'm sorry, all I could come up with are the following 150+ verses. Look them up yourself.

Surah 2:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 3:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 4:71-72, 74-77, 84, 89-91, 94-95,100-104; 5:033, 35, 82; 8:1, 5, 7, 9-10, 12, 15-17, 39-48,57-60, 65-75; 9:5, 12-14, 16, 19-20, 24-26, 29, 36, 38-39, 41, 44, 52, 73, 81, 83,86, 88, 92, 111, 120, 122-123; 16:110; 22:39, 58, 78; 24:53, 55; 25:52; 29:6, 69; 33:15, 18, 20, 23, 25-27, 50; 42:39; 47:4, 20, 35; 48:15-24; 49:15; 59:2, 5-8, 14; 60:9; 61:4, 11, 13; 63:4; 64:14; 66:9; 73:20; 76:8

By the way, it is evident why you would want to change the subject from Muhammad to something else, but if you are going to drag a red-herring across the road, I can't imagine why you would be foolish enough to choose the subject of Jihad to do so. If you are too embarrassed about the evidence against your prophet to deal with the subject at hand, why diflect things by bringing up another subject that is obviously going to be just as if not more embarrassing to you?

Well, I will conclude with that for now. I hope you enjoy part two as much as you enjoyed part one. Stay tuned.

Anonymous said...

Hi Tony,

Peace be unto you !

I hope you had an enjoyable, quality weekend with your family.

Now back to biz !

01) Have you ever trapped a mice ?

You know that tinnie winnie creepy fella with long tail running around in one’s home especially in the farms..

Yea, that’s right !

Throw a few stale crumbs, watch tinnie nibble, hold its tail... another prized possession for Huckleberry !!

Oh yea as true as tinnie, thank you for your reply to your sanctimonious ‘ Christian ‘ appeal on 'Please " HELP " My Muslim Friend '.

With such a devout follower, Christianity do not need the Atheists, Gnostics etc etc !

02) I notice you did not end your recent post with Wise James teachings “ Lord willing “.

What happen ?

Are you afraid I will accuse you and Wise James of plagiarizing Islamic Teachings ?

Let me re-reassure you that ONLY PEOPLE WITH “ SMALL MINDS “ like tinnie winnie’s above will make such accusations !

One other thing, Disbelievers of the One True Indivisible God,when become aware that some of their practises, no matter even if its good value, are of Islamic Origin..they will IMMEDIATELY stop practising same with disgust or tremble in their hearts or whatever !!

Almighty God has ‘locked ‘ the disbeliever’s heart and deprive him of even this good benefit !

These are one of sure indicators the disbeliever is heading for Hell Fire !!

So Tony, for the sake of your loved ones, don’t “ close “ your mind and ‘ shut “ your heart !.

03) In early September, you posed a challenge :

“ What proof do you have the Muhammad was a prophet of God?”

I responded, almost instantly, to your challenge by quoting references and prophecies from the Noble Qur’an and the Holy Bible to confirm the Prophethood of Muhammed.

In return, I posed you a challenge to produce a candidate with credentials, in event you don’t agree that the Prophecies I quoted from the Holy Bible, were referring to Prophet Muhammed !

On receipt of your candidate and his credentials , together we will evaluate both candidates credentials and come to a mutual acceptance as to whose candidate is most suitable.

Simple ! Rational ! Straight Forward !

It's almost a month and to date you have not produce your candidate BUT...instead going about like a drunken driver with wobbly legs insisting he is walking a straight line in the station !

If you persist, I will not insist !!

For more details please refer to main blog page “ Please Help My Muslim Friend “ !!


04A) Re – Plagiarizm

I have repeatedly inform you that Islamic Scholars and Islamic Websites have made clarion calls to the Muslim Community to avail and equip ourselves the resources from their sites to defend our Islamic Religion against enemies of Islam who spread lies, falsehood, deception as taught by Saint Paul in Romans 3:7, Phillipians 1:18, 2Cor 12:16.

As such, based on Islamic Scholars “ open “ invitation to ALL MUSLIMS, I did not commit ANY plagiarizm. Period !!

04B) While you deem plagiarism as sacrilegious, I wonder why you have not spoken out against “ THE FATHER OF ALL PLAGIARIZERS “ …i.e. The Holy Bible.

Besides being guilty of having several plagiarize works, The Holy Bible is ALSO GUILTY OF 100 PERCENT PLAGIARIZING !!!

Checkout Isaiah Ch37 & 2Kings Ch19!

O’ Sanctimonious One !

With irrefutable evidences before you, would you like to exercise The Laws in The Holy Bible to condemn the Holy Bible to the Chair, the Rope, the Lethal Jab...OR...DO THE CHRISTIAN “ SAINT PAUL “ THING i.e. DECEPTIVELY SWEEP IT UNDER THE CARPET .. along with its contradictions, errors, fiction, jugglery of words, PORNOGRAPHY etc etc

You have the right to pass judgement either way BUT...the Fact remains that the Holy Bible is indeed “ Holey Bible !!“

05) In respect of your quoting references from the Noble Qur’an to support your Professorial Article on July 29, 2008 “ The Sword Has Spoken, the Matter Is Settled “.

I will make my response within today, Insya ALLAH !

Peace !

Semper Paratus said...

As I have said before, you ramble more often than you actually say anything of substance. This is a dangerous procedure. It is written in the Bible to be slow to speak and not to be given over to many words, for therein is a greater chance and opportunity to say foolish things. You are an example of this.

The fact is, I let many of your ramblings go, especially since I don't think most people will be taken in by them, and because I have no special interest in tearing down your dignity as someone who was made in the image of God.

I also think that most people who read the prior blog and the following comments can see through your plagiarism defense. You didn't cite your source(s), and tried to palm the writing off as your own until you were called on it. This is all the more proven by the fact that you complain that I have not answered all of "your" case in the amount of time you would like...but surely if you thought plagiarism was a legitimate procedure than you would know that I could easily cut and paste something just like you did.

In addition, I let many things go because I can tell that you are not a man who accepts correction. This can be seen not only on the plagiarism issue, but on others as well. For example, I have corrected your misuse of Paul's words, but you plod on, blissfully unwilling to acknowledge it. I could also point out how ignorant you are to think that James plagiarized from Muhammad when James lived in the first century (Anno Domini), five centuries before your false prophet, but you are still likely to talk while your foot is in your mouth.

In respect to your case for Muhammad, I can only show you the irrationality of your challenge...I can't make you be rational. Muhammad is not a fulfillment of anything by default. He doesn't magically become a prophet in fulfillment of Old Testament promises any time someone doesn't point out who the passage is referring to. It is enough to show that it is not referring to Muhammad. The fact that you keep bringing this up shows that your ineptitude knows no bounds.

One final note...I am not sure if you are trying to be a nuisance (I hope not), but if you would, please place your comments on the blog post to which they are relevant. If you are interested in the subject of "the Sword", then by all means freely post there. If you post them somewhere else where they will be off topic -----I will delete them.

I look forward to your "response", especially since you are going to have to do your own homework this time and site your sources accurately.

In Christ the King,

Tony

Anonymous said...

Hi Tony,

Whats going on ???

Why are you responding with rhetorics, rhetorics, rhetorics ??

Do you understand simple English...

" Produce your candidate for Deut 18:18 a/with credentials. We will then evaluate both our candidates and determine which candidate is most suitable for the Prophecy in Deut 18:18 !!! ?

If you again respond with rhetorics, means you dont have a candidate that can match the person of Prophet Muhammed.

Therefore the Prophecy in Deut 18:18 is referring to Prophet Muhammed and Prohet Muhammed only. Period !!

This is the final time I will repeat my request !!

If you sincerely believe that with your wobbly legs, you are still walking a straight line, I'll leave you in your own bliss !!


Also stop behaving like a 4 year old in a Toys R Us Store. Spare the rod and spoil the kid !!

Any further discussion on Deut 18:18 will be in this page. FULL STOP !!

In respect of your " Sword " Article.

I agree we continue in sword main page !

Lets hope common sense prevail !

Semper Paratus said...

Muhammad was a big boy, even if he did play with little girls. That means that he has to stand on his own two feet. In fact, since he is dead and buried, that means it is up to you to man up and produce the evidence for him.

You can't use my "candidate" to prop up your tottering religion and false prophet. My "candidate" can stand on his own. Why can't yours?

Once you have sufficiently been drilled on the truths conveyed in part one, then we can move on to part two.

Anonymous said...

Mohammed wrote :


O’Learned One !

You wrote :

".....My "candidate" can stand on his own...."


Excellent !!


Do your candidate have a name ??

Please dont be afraid or shy to name your candidate !


Oh, please inform your “candidate “ to bring along his " solid " credentials, too !!!

You and me must not give tinnie winnie and friends an opportunity to laugh about your candidate's inadequacies in respect to the prophecy in Deut 18:18 !!


Btw, I just got a call from my good friend, Holy Bible....

“ ...told me to remind you to read his comments on your other blog page, about your " Scholarly " written work on Islam spilling blood of Infidels titled....erhhh.....what’s it called....

Oh yea !... “The Sword Has Spoken, the Matter Is Settled “.. dated July 29, 2008.

Have a good weekend !

Anonymous said...

Mohammed wrote :

O’Sober One !

You also wrote about Prophet Muhammed...

"...In fact, since he is dead and buried,..."


Since this confirmation is coming from the opposite camp, it further affirms on one hand that Prophet Muhammed is like Prophet Moses as in Deut 18:18.. as both Prophet Moses and Prophet Muhammed are both " dead and buried in this world ".

while on the other hand Christendom’s " unique " candidate is NOT LIKE PROPHET MOSES because christendom's " unique " candidate is " alive and is in heaven ".

Frankly, the person of Prophet Muhammed do not need your confirmation to boost his already “ unsurpassed “ credentials in respect to the prophecy in Deut 18:18.

Nevertheless, if its coming from a sincere heart, Prophet Muhammed and Islam teaches Muslims to accept it !

Peace !

Anonymous said...

Mohammed wrote :

Hi Tony,

While you are " Laboriously & Furiously " compiling your " Champion " Candidate’s impeccable credentials to challenge Prophet Muhammed’s " unsurpassed " credentials.

In order for you not to waste your time and mine,... I’ll share with you one of many secrets.

I had encountered a much more stronger Christian Gladiator who coincidently used your Title “ DO NOT BE AFRAID OF HIM “ to refute the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammed in respect to the Prophecy in Deuteronomy Ch 18 : 18 by quoting....

Quote

Deut Ch 18 : 21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Unquote

According to Deut Ch18 : 21/22 , Almighty God said that when a prophet prophesied and things did not happen, that prophet spoke presumptuously and you should not be afraid of him.

In your Article “ Do Not Be Afraid Of Him – Part 1” with your great wisdom on superlatives, you “ WISELY“ stated in your closing para...

"...there isn’t the slightest reason for anyone to fear, for these are the words of a presumptuous man. Indeed, the divine command is, “Do not be afraid of him.”

On this premise, this strong gladiator, within short period of about 3 days, produced pages after pages after pages of supporting facts + plus rhetorics to support his “ Champion “ Jesus Christ in respect of Deut Ch18 :18.

I must honestly admit, this Christian Gladiator was more experienced, matured,focus and dont " SHOUT " empty boasts.

Regretfully, ALL his Gladiator’s efforts came to " A Big Fat ZERO " because of the following :

001) Mark Ch 13 : 1- 30
1...And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!

2.And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3…And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,

4…Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

5…And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

6…For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many....

21...And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

22…For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23…But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

24…But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and....

“THE MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT “,

25…And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken......

29…So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

30…Verily I say unto you, that “ THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS, TILL ALL THESE THINGS BE DONE " .

Hebrews 9

26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Questions :

AA. Tony, does the moon give out her own light ?

If you are “ Dazed and Confused “ according to Led zeppelin, check out your kids or nephews “ Elementary “ Science Textbook.

Tony, YOU AND WHOLE OF CHRISTENDOM “ BOAST “ THAT THE “ HOLY BIBLE “ IS THE INSPIRED WORDS OF GOD !!

If its true, how come Almighty God who created the Moon, don’t know that Moon don’t have own light but instead reflect the light of the Sun !!

Please confirm whether verse 24 is God “ INSPIRED “ words or not ????

DO NOT SWEEP THIS QUESTION UNDER THE CARPET !!!

Be true to your motto….

“My heart I offer to you, Lord, promptly and sincerely “.


BB. According to God’s Inspired Holy bible, Its been 2000 years when Jesus spoke of this prophecy. “ THIS GENERATION “ of Jesus are ALL DEAD, BURIED AND GONE !

This Prophecy is “ UNFULFILLED !! “

Therefore Jesus has disqualified himself from the prophecy of Deut 18:18


Anthony Rogers " wisely" stated …“ there isn’t the slightest reason for anyone to fear, for these are the words of a presumptuous man. Indeed, the divine command is, “Do not be afraid of him.”


002) 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.

14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

17After that, " WE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE " and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

This Prophecy is “ UNFULFILLED !! “


According to Anthony Rogers " wise " words…“ there isn’t the slightest reason for anyone to fear, for these are the words of a presumptuous man. Indeed, the divine command is, “Do not be afraid of him.”

Dear Tony, are you referring to Jesus or Saint Paul or Both ??


003) Matthew Ch 12 :

38… Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

39… But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, “ BUT THE SIGN OF THE PROPHET JONAH “:

40...for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Questions :

01) Was Jonah alive before he was thrown overboard ?

Yes, Jonah was ALIVE before he was thrown overboard !

02) Was Jonah alive when a big fish swallowed him ?

Yes, jonah was ALIVE when a big fish swallowed him !

03) The Big Fish took Jonah for an “ Ocean Cruise “ for 3 days and 3 nights...was Jonah alive all this while ?

Yes, Jonah was ALIVE all these 3 days and 3 nights.

04) In the Fish belly for 3 days and 3 nights was Jonah alive and what was he doing ?

Yes, Jonah was ALIVE in the Fish belly for 3 days and 3 nights AND PRAYING TO GOD FOR HELP !!

05) When the big fish “ threw out “ Jonah on the beach…was Jonah alive ?

Yes, Jonah was ALIVE !

Jonah was ALIVE !, ALIVE ! ALIVE !, ALIVE ! ALIVE !

Jesus said he will give a sign “ LIKE JONAH “ !!.

That means when EVERYBODY, especially Christians thinks that Jesus DIED, Jesus was ACTUALLY ALIVE !!

But Anthony Rogers and WHOLE OF CHRISTIANDOM say JESUS DIED !!

If I were to agree with Tony and Whole of Christendom, that means this Prophecy spoken by Jesus is “ UNFULFILLED !“

Therefore Jesus has disqualified himself from the prophecy of Deut 18:18


According to Anthony Rogers " wise " words…“ there isn’t the slightest reason for anyone to fear, for these are the words of a presumptuous man. Indeed, the divine command is, “Do not be afraid of him.”

Dear Tony, are you referring to Jesus or Almighty God…since the Holy Bible is the Divine “ Inspired “ words of God ??

Tony and the Whole of Christiandom make a gallant counter..that this prophecy was referring to 3 days and 3 nights.

So, go ahead and compare Jonah’s 3 days and 3 nights in the Fish belly with Jesus 3 days and 3 nights in the sepulcre.

According to Christians, Jesus was “ crucified “ on Friday evening ( before sunset ) and his body was put in a sepulchre. On Sunday early morning, Mary Magdalene found the tomb empty.

Simple maths :

Friday day - 1 Friday night - 1
Sat day - 1 Sat night - 1
Sun morn - empty ??

According to Bible records, Jesus “body” remained in the tomb for 2 days and 2 nights.

What about the "3RD" Day & "3RD" Night ???

If I were to agree with Tony and Whole of Christendom, that means this Prophecy spoken by Jesus is “ UNFULFILLED !“


According to Anthony Rogers words of wisdom..." there isn’t the slightest reason for anyone to fear, for these are the words of a presumptuous man. Indeed, the divine command is, “Do not be afraid of him.”

Basing on several "Unfulfilled" Prophecies, the prophecy mentioned in Deut 18 :18 is NOT REFERRING TO JESUS BUT TO PROPHET MUHAMMED AND PROPHET MUHAMMED ONLY.

So, Tony, to save you from further “ self-inflicted “ embarrassment, this is one of many secrets I am sharing with you !

Your boast..."My "candidate" can stand on his own....",

Like many of your past empty boasts, I hope this time whoever your candidate may be, can " really stand on his own !! "

Errhhh!.....Now that I have shared this little secret with you, please don’t take another 30 days to “ Name “ your candidate + plus another 30 days to present his credentials !!

Please remember your rhethorics, without your candidate’s name and his credentials are akin to “ a drunken man with wobbly legs, insisting he is walking a straight line “.

As such like all nonsense, your rhethorics will be treated as garbage and consigned to the garbage truck !!

Have a Beautiful, gorgeous Sunday !

Semper Paratus said...

Oh what a shame! My Muslim friend was doing such a good job avoiding my refutation of his prophet. But now he has had a falling out with himself and has told us that Muhammad was the prophet like unto Moses, because, like Moses – are you ready for this? -Muhammad died and was buried.

I know…I know…but let’s humor him and pretend that there is a surface level plausibility to the importance of such a comparison, even though it is so broadly construed that it is true of, well, everyone who has ever lived and will live - INCLUDING JESUS.

Since this is true of everyone, with the exception of Enoch and Elijah, in order for this to be a significant point vis-a-vis the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18 – and since, after all, this is NOT one of the criteria listed in the passage - the manner of death would have to be so comparable, such that their respective deaths would stand out and demand such a comparison as my Muslim friend wants to draw. Unfortunately for him, and to the chagrin of all Muslims, not only was the death and burial of Jesus unlike that of Moses, which latter died at the ripe age of 120, without his strength or vigor being abated (q.v. Deut 34), and who was buried by God Himself in a place that no one knows, but NEITHER was the death of his prophet like this either. The fact is, Muhammad’s life was cut off, i.e. he died prematurely, having been poisoned by Jews, and he was buried by his companions in a mosque that can be visited to this day. The great irony of ironies in all of this is: this means that Muhammad’s death was more like that of Jesus than either of their deaths were like Moses, for both of them died at the hands of the Jews. (How do you like them apples?)

Now I do find it interesting that he couldn’t help himself and had to bring up Jesus in connection with Detueronomy 18, even though I have not brought him up in relation to the prophecy. For some reason his mind naturally inclines toward Jesus when he considers Moses prediction, and he feels a special need to eek out: “It wasn’t talking about him”. He reminds me of the little Dutch girl who would see the police and suddenly blurt out: "My Daddy don't steal no ducks."

Furthermore, however much he denies that the passage was fulfilled in Jesus, it is all neither here nor there as far as his false prophet is concerned, because even if it didn’t point to Jesus that still wouldn’t make Muhammad the fulfillment of the prophecy. For all my Muslim friend knows, the prophecy was fulfilled in Joshua, Moses successor. After all, did it ever occur to him that Joshua was at least an Israelite, as the prophecy required, and that great signs occurred under Joshua’s ministry, as the prophecy required, and that Joshua also died and was buried, as the false criteria which he has added to the prophecy requires?

As for the Lord Jesus, He remains a true prophet whether he was the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18 or not. Jesus remains a true prophet whether we take the Bible or the Qur’an as our point of reference. He is a true prophet according to the Bible, because he was spoken of in many prophecies besides the one in question, and because he provided divine testimony through the great and awesome deeds that He performed in the sight of all Israel according to the power of God. He is also a true prophet according to the Qur’an, and not only a prophet, but the Christ, the prophet of all prophets, as the meaning of the word “Christ”, even as it is used in the Qur’an, clearly signifies. If my Muslim friend doubts this, I will be happy to school him on it. (The same can’t be said for Muhammad. He claimed that his coming was prophesied in the Torah – S. 7:157 – so without a bona fide prophecy to which they can point, Muhammad is exposed as a false prophet.)

As for my Muslim friends claim that Jesus made false predictions, not only does this undermine the Qur’an, which says Jesus was a true prophet, and therefore it also undermines his claim that Muhammad was a true prophet, it is simply not true. As for the verse he quotes from Mark 13, where it says “…the moon shall not giver her light”, notice how he separates it from the verse before and captilizes it, in order to give the illusion that it isn’t connected to the phrase that comes before it. The verse reads: “The Sun shall be darkened, AND the moon will not give her light.” I think if he would consult those science textbooks he spoke of, he would learn that if the Sun is darkened, the moon would have no light to give. Of course, the moon does borrow its light from the Sun, but the Sun itself borrows its power (hence also its light) from God, even as all creatures have nothing of themselves but are only stewards of what God has made and “loaned” out to them. Doesn’t his Qur’an teach him as much? In other words, we still speak of something as belonging to us or to someone else or to something else, even if we know that in the ultimate sense this can not be taken literally. It is simply a figure of speech.

If he doesn’t get it or doesn’t want to get it, I wonder how he would like to try the following on for size: The Qur’an speaks of “new moons” (e.g., S. 2:189), but isn’t it the same moon each month? It speaks of the moon “rising” (e.g. S. 6:77), but isn’t this just the appearance of things given the rotation of the earth? It says that the moon does “swim” through the sky (e.g. S. 21:33), but does the moon exist in an atmosphere of water? It says that the moon does “bow down” to Allah (S. 22:18), but isn’t the moon inanimate and lifeless and doesn’t it really just operate according to God’s commands? I could go on, but the following is enough to put the finishing touches on my friend’s poor argument. Read the following verses of the Qur’an in the light of his criticism.

He it is Who appointed the sun a splendour and THE MOON A LIGHT, and measured for her stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. Allah created not (all) that save in truth. He detaileth the revelations for people who have knowledge. (S. 10:5)

Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a MOON GIVING LIGHT;…

Well that is all I can say for now, I have to finish getting read for Church. God is good. The Lord is risen.

P.S. Don’t swear by the moon, for it is simply a created thing and has no power to bless or curse. I know your god swears by it in the Qur’an, but God’s true word says that God swears by nothing but Himself, since there is nothing greater than Him. It also tells believers to swear in His name alone.

Semper Paratus,

Tony

Semper Paratus said...

Okay, I am back.

I should have mentioned before,... although Jesus and Muhammad are both unlike Moses in the manner of their death and burial, there are other ways that they are alike and disalike both to each other and to Moses (as for example in Christ's resurrection, although of course Moses and Muhammad will both be raised one day, the one to hear "Enter into the joy of the Lord", and the other to hear: "depart from me ye accursed.")

The real question before the house is: what are the criteria that Moses actually gives in Deuteronomy 18? I have already pointed them out: a) the prophet has to be an Israelite; b) the prophet has to speak directly with God; and c) the prophet has to perform signs, wonders, and awesome deeds in the presence of Israel. If there are any other points of comparison, as I think there certainly are many more striking comparisons between Moses and Jesus (and Joshua as well), none of these would be relevant if the above three criteria are not met, as they are not met by your (false) prophet. For that reason, it really doesn't matter what you cook up to make Muhammad smell more like Moses, he would still reak like a false prophet (all the more so since he not only did not fulfill the passage, but also because he actually transgressed it as I pointed out in the article).

Also, I wanted to ask: Would you like me to "moon" you some more, or were the verses I gave you enough to quell your intemperate attack on the Lord Jesus?

Semper Paratus said...

One more thing...Since you argue so poorly for your position, I started to think to myself that you must not really be a Muslim but rather are someone who is trying to make Muslims and Islam look bad.

My suspicions are all the more raised by the fact that it occurred to me you don't show the requisite respect for your (false) prophet. Why don't you say PBUH or S or what not after writing his name?

Are you a member of an aberrant Muslims group?

What gives?

Anonymous said...

Mohammed wrote :

Hi Tony,

Hope you had a good weekend with your Loved Ones.


Finally, finally, to the relief of your many, many fans and Family members,

The One and Only , The Superlative Anthony Rogers has brought forward his “ champion “ candidate alongwith his " Impeccable " credentials to challenge the " Unsurpassed " credentials of Prophet Muhammed for the rightful claim to the Prophecy in Deutoronomy 18 : 18.

True to your inherent, hollow loudness, out of 12 paragraphs, The Superlative Anthony Rogers devoted only “ half a paragraph “ of 7 short lines for his champion candidate.

" Loud " Tony wrote :

5th para 7th line

“...prophecy was fulfilled in Joshua, Moses successor. After all, did it ever occur to him that Joshua was at least an Israelite, as the prophecy required, and that great signs occurred under Joshua’s ministry, as the prophecy required, and that Joshua also died and was buried, as the false criteria which he has added to the prophecy requires?..."

To determine whether “ Loud “ Tony’s candidate can “ stand on his own “ lets see Joshua’s credentials :

- Joshua was an Israelite

- Great signs occurred under Joshua’s ministry

- Joshua also died and was buried. ( Though ‘ loud ‘ Tony label this as false criteria, but nevertheless he had to swallow his own puke for the lack of “ solid “ credentials and submit it as the third credential.


For good orders sake I will quote Deuteronomy 18 : 18

“ ..I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him…”

Dear “ Loud “ Tony,

Basing on your 3 credentials stated above for Joshua, are you consciously aware that almost ALL the other Israelite Prophets, in their own rights, too can lay claim to Deut 18 : 18 !!

For the love of God Almighty, how do you expect Joshua to “ stand on his own “ when these 3 credentials could easily be met by almost ALL the Israelite Prophets !!

Also I’m left flabbergasted by you nominating Joshua !

I never, never expected “ Loud “ Superlative Tony, Prolific Writer of Numerous Articles including “ Crass” Articles on Islam, Noble Qur’an and Prophet Mohammed to posses “ vacuum between your ears ! “

Why are you letting down your Loved Ones, Family members, Church friends and your many, many fans ??

Just to prove I am not being personal, I’ll jolt your memory with another quotation from the Holy Bible which is connected to Deut 18 :18


John Ch 1 : ( KJV )

19.. And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

20..And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21..And they asked him, What then? Art thou Eli'jah ? And he saith, I am not. Art thou “ that Prophet “ ? And he answered, No.

In KJV Bible it will show “ that Prophet “ refers to Deut 18:18.

What does this quotation from John Ch1 : 19/21 tell us ?

Everybody, including anyone with a " micron size " of gray matter left in his cranium will understand that “ that Prophet “ is SOMEONE WHO WILL COME IN THE FUTURE !!


So, for you to nominate Joshua who was “ already dead “ centuries ago, when the Priests and Levites posed this question to John The Baptist confirm beyond doubt that you possess “ vacuum between your ears ” !!.

Don’t worry my friend, at least this shocking discovery explains your inherent loudness and fondness for misrepresenting Islam to your unwary and trusting friends and fans !

Having stated the above, it is now clearly established that you don’t have a “ most “ suitable candidate to fulfil the prophecy in Deuteronomy 18 : 18.

As such with the Unsurpassed credentials presented for Prophet Muhammed earlier it is irrefutable that Deuteronomy 18 :18 is referring to Prophet Muhammed and Prophet Muhammed ONLY !!

For more details please refer to Tony’s main blog page “ Please Help my Muslim Friend “

It don’t matter to Muslims whether you and all Christendom protest till the cows come home.

I’ll wrap this up and leave you in your blissful state of vacuum symphony !

Peace !!


P/s. If you sincerely believe you have abundance of gray matter, prove it in your other main blog page...“ The Sword Has Spoken, the Matter Is Settled “ dated July 29, 2008

Semper Paratus said...

To begin with, you have misquoted me. This is not a surprise coming from you, but it still should be pointed out. I did not say the prophecy was fulfilled in Joshua...I said Joshua was a better candidate than your (false) prophet. The reason for that is b/c Joshua at least was in the ballpark of what the prophecy requires (in so far as he was an Israelite and performed miraculous signs), but your prophet didn't even know where the stadium was and couldn't tell his left foot from his right, prophetically speaking. (And you are right, sort of; all the prophets were closer to fulfilling Deuteronomy 18 than Muhammad, for all prophets were like Moses to one extent or another, at least they were all Israelites, descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the very lineage on which God deigned to confer prophethood. Furthermore, like Moses, all true prophets had more than just their own say so to back their claim to being a true prophet.)

As for your attempt to undermine this point with an appeal to John 1, where the Pharisees question assumes that Elijah, the Christ, and the Prophet were three different individuals, and that the prophet was someone who had not yet come, I would note the following:

1) you are cherry picking what you accept and reject in the Bible. Not only does John one record the question of the Pharisees, who you apparently agree with since you are appealing to what they said, but it also tells us that Jesus was the eternal Word of God who was made flesh and that he was the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

To further confirm your cherry-picking method, the Gospel of John not only records the priests and Levites asking if John was the prophet, but it also records certain of the Jewish people who thought Jesus was the Prophet. Indeed, this is most significant since they came to this conclusion in light of the fact that Jesus was performing great signs and wonders, such as calming and walking on the sea, casting out demons, and restoring the sight of blind people.

To take just one example, after multiplying a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish to feed upward of five thousand people (not counting women and children), it goes on to say, “When the people saw the sign that he had done, they said, “This is indeed the Prophet who is to come into the world!” (John 6:14)

2) Not only are you guilty of cherry picking the evidence, but you aren’t even consistent with yourself. If the Pharisees question assumes that the Christ and the Prophet were two different people (and that the Prophet had not yet come), and if, as your argument depends on, their assumptions are authoritative, then, mutatis mutandis, Muhammad can’t be the prophet either, for the Pharisees question also assumes, in so far as it is put to John the Baptist, that the prophet would be an Israelite.

3) For one final point, I find it quite interesting that you choose to appeal to the unbelieving Jewish religious leaders who opposed John and Jesus, and whose forefathers persecuted and killed the prophets, rather than the testimony of John, Jesus, the apostles, and many of the common folk. I guess this shows just how much we can really accept the Muslim claim that they believe in all the prophets and make no distinction between any of them. Apparently Muslims believe in all the prophets so much that they distinguish between them and their persecutors and choose to side with the latter.

And so what took you many words, a lot of bluster, and a whole lot more ad hominem to say, has been more than easily answered. You come with a lot of taunting and mockery, but in the end that is all that is left of your posts, for your arguments themselves, to the extent that you ever provide any, necessarily go the way of your prophet – the way of all flesh.

Anonymous said...

Mohammed wrote :

Hi Tony,

I ONLY READ YOUR FIRST PARAGRAPH !!


You wrote :

1st para 3rd line....

“....I did not say the prophecy was fulfilled in Joshua...”


You wrote on Sunday Oct 5th :

5th para 7th line

"....the prophecy was fulfilled in Joshua, Moses successor..."


Hey My Good Friend,

Looks like you falling apart in a drunken stupor !

Please take hold of yourself ! Please....

Prophet Muhammed and Islam teach muslims to be magnanimous and merciful to the weak and indigent !

Therefore I will "Ignore" your above Declaration/Nomination on Prophet Joshua made on Sunday Oct 5th !

I’ll give you another chance to produce your "MOST" suitable candidate a/with his credentials IMMEDIATELY, subject to the following conditions :


01)Prophet Muhammmed is the Champion of ALL Champions !

FOR ANY CANDIDATE TO TAKE ON PROPHET MUHAMMED as the Rightful Claimant to Deut 18 : 18,

THIS CANDIDATE MUST FIRST "STAND ON HIS OWN " AMONG HIS OWN PEOPLE throughout the generations beginning from Prophet Adam to present day !!!

Your candidate must have special qualities which are superior to others or where others are lacking !!

You see Tony, I am being impartial and intellectually objective.
Your criteria "stand on his own" is a good criteria, which I accept whole heartedly !!


02)This is a match between Champions to determine who is the CHAMPION of ALL CHAMPIONS !!

Therefore you must present your Champion Candidate’s Credentials in a manner befitting a Champion.

I know for a fact this is way beyond your ability considering your "half bake half paragraph 7 short lines " presentation on poor Prophet Joshua.

Therefore go and avail the facilities/case presentations available in Anti-islam websites/ Christian Scholars like answering-islam, Dr William Campbell, Craig Winn etc etc.

Your presentation must be in expanded details similar to what I had presented for Prophet Muhammed taken from several Islamic websites/Scholars !!

This requirement is to enable your Family, Church Friends and many, many of your Fans to “ CLEARLY “ and “ EASILY ” follow and “ COMPARE “ the credentials of both candidates !!


03) Go thru once again the credentials I presented for Prophet Muhammed in your other Blog Page “ Please Help My Muslim Friend “. I don’t want you to use credentials of your candidate which been neutralised or superseded by Prophet Muhammed’s Unsurpassed credentials.

Of course if it is similar in degree you can use it


If you again try to show your obdurate “ vacuum “ cleverness or mimic your kid’s tantrums, this “SECOND CHANCE “ will be “ CANCELLED “ IMMEDIATELY !! …

And the result of my previous post stands i.e. Christendom do not have a candidate “ worthy enough “ to fulfil the Prophecy of Deut 18 : 18…..

.. while Prophet Muhammed ( descendent of Prophet Abraham and Ishmael) with his Unsurpassed Credentials “ effortlessly “ fulfilled the prophecy of Deut 18 :18 ‘ To a "T" !!

Oh by the way, my good friend Holy Bible has taken note of your “ obsession “ for repeating the same mistake over and over and over ...

My good friend Holy Bible has issued this stern warning to you NOT TO BE LIKE A ....

"...As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.."...(Proverbs 26:11)


"...The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire..."..(2 Peter2:22 )


Please, please take heed of my good friend Holy bible’s stern warning.

As much as we have many points of disagreement, nevertheless I don’t want to see you end up like a...?


Peace !!


P/s. Do you need another 30 days to respond to my postings on Oct 2nd in your “ Crass “ Article Titled "The Sword Has Spoken, the Matter Is Settled" dated July 29, 2008 ???

Semper Paratus said...

You have clearly misquoted me. Once again, rather than own up to it as either an inadvertent mistake or repent from it as an outright attempt to deceive, you have tried to cover your tracks.

I said: “FOR ALL YOU KNOW, the prophecy was fulfilled in Joshua, Moses successor...”

You struck the relevant words from the quote and ran with it.

You quote me as saying: "...the prophecy was fulfilled in Joshua, Moses successor..."

You are a dishonest man. Why does your religion inspire such behavior?

Tony

Semper Paratus said...

I am afraid my Muslim friend has turned out to be a dead-end. In the course of our various discussions he has plagiarized others, misquoted me, and has been reduced to ad hominem attacks and childish taunting. He has also ignored the criteria laid down in Deuteronomy 18 and the fact that his (false) prophet did not meet them, even though I keep bringing him back to this.

Since I think I have more than ably answered all his responses to me on the matter of Muhammad and Deuteronomy 18, and since he has chosen to run from dealing with the criteria clearly spelled out there, and since I have not found him to be a man of integrity in the course of all of this, I think it prudent not to spend more time correcting such an incorrigible person. In short, although I pray for his repentance, I am afraid there is no more I can do for him. Writing more of my own words to him will only be a failure on my own part to use my own time wisely, and will also, given past experience with him, provide further occasion for him to misquote, mock, and show how Islam inspires people to be mean spirited and malicious. I think the world has more than enough evidence of all such behavior from the proponents of Islam than to need more of it here.

Tony

Question Mark said...

Peace be upon him who accepts truth,

Whats up Rogers, where are you, I you find my part 2 uninteresting then I would soon gift you part 3.

sincerely Yours,

Q.M

Semper Paratus said...

Q.M. (i.e. Question Mark), aka Mr. Anonymous, aka MNK,

You should post your taunt in the appropriate thread, that way other people who look at it will see you have tried to reply to me on the issue of John 17:3 and the Shahadah.

I look forward to your next response. I will post part 4 of my response but probably not until after you finally get around to posting your part 3. As you should be able to discern from having a look around at my blog, during your sluggishness I have been posting many other articles and responses to other Muslims. There is far too much work to be done than to wait around for an anonymous Muslim to get busy.

BTW, posting on the right thread might help you get some readers. By checking the stats on AI I can see how many people have viewed my responses to you; I can also see how many people have come from your blog and Zaatari's Muslim Responses website. Suffice it to say, my article has had many readers. Very few have come from reading your responses. It would appear from this that your articles are either not being found by people or they are just not interesting enough for them to read.

Here are the appropriate blog posts to leave your comments vis-a-vis the True Shahadah:

http://smprparatus.blogspot.com/2009/05/true-shahada-defended-part-1.html

http://smprparatus.blogspot.com/2009/07/true-shahada-defended-part-iii.html

Semper Paratus,

Anthony Rogers